Legislature(2003 - 2004)

05/05/2004 03:30 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                          May 5, 2004                                                                                           
                           3:30 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TAPE(S) 04-49                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                              
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Scott Ogan, Chair                                                                                                       
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Vice Chair                                                                                              
Senator Ralph Seekins                                                                                                           
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:                                                                                                          
Board of Game - Ben Grussendorf - Sitka, Mike Fleagle                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 395(FIN) am                                                                                               
"An Act relating  to the recovery of shallow natural  gas, to the                                                               
regulation   of  shallow   natural  gas   or  coal   bed  methane                                                               
operations,  and  to oil  and  gas  leasing operations  involving                                                               
activities not  governed under the Alaska  Land Act; contingently                                                               
redesignating  shallow natural  gas as  nonconventional gas,  and                                                               
relating to  the regulation of  that gas under  that contingency;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 452(FIN) am                                                                                               
"An Act  relating to  licensing and  regulation of  sport fishing                                                               
operators and  sport fishing  guides; authorizing  the Department                                                               
of  Fish  and Game  and  the  Alaska Commercial  Fisheries  Entry                                                               
Commission to  release records and  reports to the  Department of                                                               
Natural  Resources  and  the Department  of  Public  Safety;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     MOVED SCS CSHB 452(RES) am OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 452                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: GUIDED SPORT FISHING/ ADFG & CFEC RECORDS                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) HEINZE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
02/16/04       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/16/04       (H)       L&C, JUD, FIN                                                                                          
03/17/04       (H)       L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
03/17/04       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/17/04       (H)       MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                            
03/19/04       (H)       L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
03/19/04       (H)       Moved CSHB 452(L&C) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/19/04       (H)       MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                            
03/22/04       (H)       L&C RPT CS(L&C) NT 1DP 3NR 1AM                                                                         
03/22/04       (H)       DP: LYNN; NR: CRAWFORD, GATTO,                                                                         
03/22/04       (H)       ANDERSON; AM: ROKEBERG                                                                                 
03/31/04       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
03/31/04       (H)       Moved CSHB 452(JUD) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/31/04       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
04/05/04       (H)       JUD RPT CS(JUD) NT 1DP 5NR                                                                             
04/05/04       (H)       DP: GRUENBERG; NR: HOLM, GARA,                                                                         
04/05/04       (H)       ANDERSON, OGG, MCGUIRE                                                                                 
04/14/04       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/14/04       (H)       Moved CSHB 452(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/14/04       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/15/04       (H)       FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 4DP 6NR                                                                             
04/15/04       (H)       DP: MEYER, MOSES, HARRIS, WILLIAMS;                                                                    
04/15/04       (H)       NR: HAWKER, STOLTZE, JOULE, CROFT,                                                                     
04/15/04       (H)       FOSTER, CHENAULT                                                                                       
04/23/04       (H)       LETTER FOR JOURNAL                                                                                     
04/23/04       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
04/23/04       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 452(FIN) AM                                                                              
04/26/04       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/26/04       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
05/05/04       (S)       RES AT 4:15 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ben Grussendorf and Mr. Mike Fleagle, nominees to the Board                                                                 
of Game                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. John Bittner                                                                                                                
Staff to Representative Cheryl Heinze                                                                                           
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 452 for the sponsor.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kelly Hepler, Director                                                                                                      
Division of Sport Fish                                                                                                          
Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                       
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, AK  99802-5226                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 452.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Doug Vincent-Lang, Assistant Director                                                                                       
Division of Sport Fish                                                                                                          
Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                       
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, AK  99802-5226                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 452.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 04-49, SIDE A                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SCOTT  OGAN called the Senate  Resources Standing Committee                                                             
meeting to order  at 3:30 p.m. Present were  Senators Wagoner and                                                               
Chair Scott  Ogan. Senator  Seekins arrived  at 4:50  and Senator                                                               
Stevens  arrived at  4:56. The  first order  of business  to come                                                               
before  the  committee  was  the  confirmation  hearing  for  Ben                                                               
Grussendorf as a member of the Board of Game.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
^CONFIRMATION HEARINGS                                                                                                      
^BOARD OF GAME                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEN GRUSSENDORF, nominee for  the Board of Game, told members                                                               
that he always  wanted to be a game warden  and when he graduated                                                               
from  college in  1967 he  came to  Alaska where  he has  already                                                               
served  on  the board  for  three  years.  He offered  to  answer                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN asked him if he still loves wolves.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRUSSENDORF replied yes; he  enjoys every animal in the state                                                               
of Alaska.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  asked if  he supported  the current  predator control                                                               
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRUSSENDORF  answered that he  supported it in units  19D and                                                               
13, but dragged his heels  on 16B, because the population figures                                                               
of the  prey animals needed more  study of what bears  and wolves                                                               
are actually taking.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. MIKE FLEAGLE,  nominee to the Board of Game,  was up next and                                                               
the chair asked him why he  wanted to subject himself to this for                                                               
another term.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FLEAGLE  replied that  he  always  had an  appreciation  for                                                               
trapping, hunting and  fishing. He looked forward to  his job the                                                               
first time  he was appointed and  he is still looking  forward to                                                               
it now - his fourth appointment.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS arrived at 4:56.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN thanked both the members for serving on the board.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER moved to forward the  two names to the full body.                                                               
There were no objections and it was so ordered.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:57 - 4:58 - at ease                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
   CSHB 452(FIN)AM-GUIDED SPORT FISHING/ ADFG & CFEC RECORDS                                                                
                                                                                                                              
CHAIR OGAN announced HB 452 to be up for consideration.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JOHN  BITHNER,  staff   to  Representative  Cheryll  Heinze,                                                               
sponsor,  said  HB 452  is  a  sport  guide licensing  bill  that                                                               
creates two new licenses -  a sports operators license ($100) and                                                               
a sports  guide license ($50).  Purchasing both of  them together                                                               
would cost $100. The licensing  requires liability insurance, Red                                                               
Cross   or   comparable   first  aid   training   and   reporting                                                               
requirements for  the areas  being fished.  He offered  to answer                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER moved to adopt SCS CSHB 452(RES)AM, version \V.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN  objected  for  discussion  purposes  and  asked  Mr.                                                               
Bittner to go over the changes.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BITTNER said  the changes could be found on  the second page,                                                               
which is almost  entirely new. Currently, sport  fish guides must                                                               
register  their  vessels  with  the  Commercial  Fisheries  Entry                                                               
Commission (CFEC)  and there is  a fee involved depending  on the                                                               
size of  the vessel. This bill  takes the category of  sport fish                                                               
guides  out of  the CFEC's  jurisdiction and  puts it  in ADF&G's                                                               
jurisdiction. ADF&G  would use the  fees it generated to  pay for                                                               
the vessel registration  instead of having it be  a separate fee.                                                               
The information  collected would be  the same  as it is  now, but                                                               
would be consolidated more efficiently  in the Department of Fish                                                               
and Game.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER  asked why  the  fee  is  $100 for  buying  both                                                               
licenses.  No other  fee structure  gives a  break for  combining                                                               
licenses.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BITTNER  answered that  the only  reason he  could see  is to                                                               
make it easier  for small business operators where  one person is                                                               
the entire business.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN said  he thought this was a good  approach, because he                                                               
objects to creating more layers  of bureaucracy. His sportfishing                                                               
guide friend needs  over 60 permits. He felt the  change was also                                                               
beneficial because  it would  give the  sport fishing  industry a                                                               
better position at the table with the Board of Fisheries.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER held  up his sportfishing guide  license and said                                                               
he doesn't pay  $50 a year for  it; in fact, he  pays nothing for                                                               
it. He asked how the price structure was developed.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHERYLL  HEINZE replied that the  whole reason for                                                               
this bill  is because the  constant stream of sport  fishermen on                                                               
the  inside  waters   is  a  huge  problem   that  is  developing                                                               
throughout   the  state.   The   reports   will  provide   useful                                                               
information to the division for river management.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  interrupted to say  that his question  about his                                                               
license was still not addressed.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KELLY  HEPLER,  Director, Division  of  Sport  Fish,  Alaska                                                               
Department  of  Fish and  Game  (ADF&G),  explained that  Senator                                                               
Wagoner is holding a registration  card that provides information                                                               
to  the division  on  salt water  and it  is  free. However,  the                                                               
division currently  has no reporting requirements  in fresh water                                                               
and this bill now requires that.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He is  not trying to  make money off of  the program and  the fee                                                               
structure was developed to mirror  the additional work that would                                                               
be  needed  to  accurately  and timely  compile  information  for                                                               
management decisions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS asked  regarding page  5, line  24, why  a sport                                                               
fishing guide  license is  restricted to  citizens of  Mexico and                                                               
Canada and  resident aliens,  as well as  citizens of  the United                                                               
States.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOUG VINCENT-LANG,  Assistant  Director,  Division of  Sport                                                               
Fish, Alaska Department of Fish  and Game (ADF&G), explained that                                                               
the  Attorney  General's office  said  that  the recently  passed                                                               
NAFTA legislation  does not allow the  department to discriminate                                                               
against business  practices conducted  within the  United States,                                                               
Canada and Mexico.  This U.S. treaty obligates  everyone to treat                                                               
all citizens equally.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  asked if  sport  fishing  is considered  to  be                                                               
regulated under the commerce clause.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. LANG replied  yes; the business activity  associated with the                                                               
license of a sportfishing guide is what's at issue.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN   asked  why  there  isn't   a  resident/non-resident                                                               
classification in this area.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEPLER  replied that  because  the  recent Carlson  decision                                                               
ruled that the state would not  be able to justify a differential                                                               
fee structure for residents and non-residents.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN asked if that ratio was 3:1.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEPLER  elaborated that it's  the ratio alone is  not anymore                                                               
the basis  of the fee,  but how much more  it costs the  state to                                                               
administer  licensing of  non-residents  than  for residents.  He                                                               
added  that this  bill also  requires  guides to  have a  fishing                                                               
license.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:18 - 5:19 - at ease                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS asked  how the fee structure  was established for                                                               
the liability insurance.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEPLER  said  the  department consulted  with  a  number  of                                                               
insurance  firms and  the least  amount for  a liability  package                                                               
that they came up with was $300,000.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN asked if the division  provides a vessel sticker to be                                                               
displayed at all times.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEPLER said  the amendment  intends to  do that.  Presently,                                                               
people  get  a  triangle  for registration.  He  wants  to  offer                                                               
something that  is distinctly  different from  commercial fishing                                                               
boats so that  there is no difficulty in identifying  a boat as a                                                               
guide boat.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN asked what happens if a guide has 10 boats.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEPLER replied that he would need 10 stickers.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. LANG  added that  this bill  requires businesses  to register                                                               
their  vessels with  the division.  The fee  is for  the business                                                               
registration and  the division would  provide a sticker  for each                                                               
of the 10 boats.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN asked if there was potential for fraud.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LANG replied  that  sticker would  be  modeled after  CFEC's                                                               
program that asks for unique identifiers for each boat.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  said he thought  that section meant  the sticker                                                               
could be on or in the boat (line 4).                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEPLER added  that he  is  trying to  accommodate people  by                                                               
including small vessels like zodiacs.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN  said  that section  needed  more  clarification.  He                                                               
personally thought that guide boats needed to be identified.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN recessed  the  meeting  at 5:31  p.m.  He called  the                                                               
meeting back to order at 2:25 p.m. on May 6, 2004.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS moved to adopt  conceptual Amendment 1 [discussed                                                               
at the  May 5 meeting].  There were no  objections and it  was so                                                               
ordered.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS moved to pass  SCS CSHB 452(RES)am from committee                                                               
with individual  recommendations and new fiscal  note. There were                                                               
no objections and it was so ordered.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN adjourned the meeting at 2:28 p.m.                                                                                   

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